Tate McRae: “Wee won’t back down!”… English council stands by Littering Fines for Wild Peeing

Tate McRae: Yes, Wee won’t back down!

Wee won’t back down: English council stands by littering fines for wild peeing

Dacorum borough council in Hertfordshire says policy has legal basis after £88 fines draw criticism

At least two men have been fined by Dacorum council enforcers apparently lying in wait in laybys. They claim they were relieving themselves in nearby woods.

A council in England has doubled down on the fining of people caught peeing in the countryside for littering, even after it emerged its own legal advice did not appear to fully support its stance.

There have been at least two cases of men handed £88 fines by Dacorum borough council in Hertfordshire after being caught in the act by council enforcers apparently lying in wait in laybys.

After the men claimed they were relieving themselves in woods by the layby, the fines have provoked a row over whether taking a wild wee amounts to littering – or whether it is even a crime at all.

Lawyers have criticised the fines, but Dacorum council officials have been defiant, saying their policy – which is not unique – has a legal basis.

Few regular visitors to the countryside will pass their lives without taking a wild wee; fewer still would expect that doing so could land them with a fine. Yet that is what happened to at least two men in the Hertfordshire borough.

This woman urinated in a cup at Disneyland (in the open), and is irritated because she’s being asked to leave…

This woman urinated in a cup at Disneyland (in the open), and is irritated because she’s being asked to leave…
byu/Opening_Knowledge868 infacepalm

Michael Mason, who has a weakened prostate, was handed a fine after he stopped at a layby on the A41 near Kings Langley to take what he described as a “discreet” wee, BBC News reported last month. Then, later in December, another man, who has asked not to be named, was caught out in similar circumstances at a layby in the area.

In both cases, the men were stopped by an employee of District Enforcement, which despite its official-sounding name is a private company contracted by Dacorum council to issue penalty fines. The council receives 22% of the fines and the company retains 78%.

The second recipient had his fine rescinded after arguing to the council that its enforcers had not seen him urinating. His uncle complained to Dacorum council, arguing that urinating in the countryside – or indeed anywhere – could not constitute littering.

Dacorum’s policy is by no means unique; many other councils also class urinating in public as a littering offence. But some lawyers disagree with the approach. Nick Freeman, a lawyer known for his defence of celebrities who calls himself “Mr Loophole” on social media, questioned the fines. He told the BBC Dacorum’s interpretation of litter “is contrary to the legislation and it is contrary to its everyday meaning and therefore, in my view, legally, they are wrong”.

In his correspondence with Dacorum council, seen by the Guardian, the man’s uncle was given short shrift, with a council barrister saying the council’s position on urination “is clear” and any further discussion would “not be an appropriate use of funds”. But he was able to use the Freedom of Information Act to extract parts of the the legal advice relied upon by the council to justify the fines.

Teamwork?

Written by David Armstrong, a lawyer who specializes in public sector clients, the advice said: “To be litter, it must be capable of causing or leading to defacement and also must be left behind. Both of these can be very difficult to prove evidentially. If challenged, both must be proven. For example, I have no problems at all with persons urinating in streets being prosecuted under section 87 of the Environmental Protection Act.”

Jolyon Maugham KC, the director of the Good Law Project, said Armstrong’s advice clearly did not apply to individuals urinating in the countryside. “I tend to think dumping an empty nappy would be litter; dumping a full nappy, likewise; likewise a number two; but not a number one, which would not ‘lie around’,” Maugham said... More @ The Guardian

Tate McRae: I wonder since when “Wee won’t back down” became an English shit?

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Canadian pop star Tate McRae’s nude selfie photos appear to have just been released online in the gallery below.

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And Tate no doubt hopes that these nude pics will garner her the attention she so desperately craves to take her music career to that next level.

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“I think the legal advice is probably wrong – and also doesn’t cover the council’s position. So if I rake up all my leaves and dump them in the street I am littering but if I drive them to a forest I am not. So the notion of ‘litter’ is context-specific. So even if – which is very probably wrong but not a bananas contention – weeing in the street is littering, I certainly don’t think weeing in the woods is littering.”